L200 Owners Club

The Forum => Public/Initial Posting Area. => Topic started by: keyL200 on 04 September, 2015, 15:20:18 PM



Title: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 04 September, 2015, 15:20:18 PM
Afternoon everyone!

Ok, so looked under the bonnet today to check something and noticed straight away the header tank had clearly overflowed and was full. So alarm bells starting ringing straight away. Took it out and replaced fluid to the low level. Checked the radiator, refilled it to full and worked out it had lost around 700ml of coolant. So started the truck up with the radiator cap off, and took this video :

http://vid1166.photobucket.com/albums/q602/key_oasislg/20150904_145924_zpspvhj5owx.mp4

Also i noticed there were bubbles in the header tank.  

http://vid1166.photobucket.com/albums/q602/key_oasislg/20150904_150058_zpswmegfpwc.mp4

Should I start looking for a new head gasket?....


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 04 September, 2015, 20:26:33 PM
since when did they start doing yellow coolant???   looks like that thing needs a right good flush out!

after flushing and changing it, park uphill, and leave it idling with rad cap off, heater on full for at least 20 mins, check level and top up if needed, after 20 mins, if its still spluttering violently like that you may have an issue,

if the truck isnt overheating dont worry just yet, top liquids up and check regularly, but only when the engine is cold (first thing in the morning etc)  or you will put air back in it..  keep doing this and fill the header tank to the high mark not the low, that way it should suck it back into the rad if its low ..

if it is losing large amounts (1 litre a week or so) then start worrying

also, get a "sniff test"  very cheap, if it comes out negative, dont go buying heads, iv had 2 trucks that liked to bubble from time to time, but neither have head faliure


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: chaldon3 on 04 September, 2015, 21:20:07 PM
hi do you still have the egr cooler and valve fitted the reason i ask is the cooler/heat exchanger fails and gasess pass through into  to the cooling system.
if your truck fails the sniffer test and turns out to be the head gasket. it is not too difficult to change gasket/head the guys on here will help as will i
i fixed my classic and i work with wood (saws and chiseles).
pin head bubbles denote exhaust gasses entering cooling system but as DC has sugested try the cheaper fixes before you commit to new head. garry


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 05 September, 2015, 11:00:25 AM
Hey guys thanks for the replies!!

Ok, the coolant is halfords long life, was in it at the time I cleaned the system out so I put the same stuff in. Its actually pink but turns that colour when you put it in. Ok, I'll do another change and see what happens. The garage I use is open monday to friday, so i'll pop down monday and get it sniff tested. Fingers crossed!

Chaldon3: It still has the egr fitted, from what I can see its never been cleaned out so it's probs stinking inside. If it passes the sniff test, I think i'll take it off. Money is a little tight at the moment so i'm hoping its nothing serious!!

Again thanks for the replies guys!!


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: 123hotchef on 05 September, 2015, 12:16:57 PM
i would deffinatly be removing that egr and cooler mate to rule that out


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 05 September, 2015, 14:14:54 PM
better idea to use blue or geen coolant, then you can see if there is rust in it, also red is for newer engines??  just flush it loads..

as long as you keep a good idea on the water level in the way I said you dont need to replace anything until the temp gauge starts rising


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 06 September, 2015, 13:24:02 PM
Ok, EGR blanking kit ordered and should be here tuesday. Perfect excuse now to take the EGR valve and cooler off and see if it cures the bubbling. As i'm doing this the coolant will be completely changed, and fingers crossed it solves it. Still prepared for the worse :-\, but I might have caught it just in time. Will report back after the EGR work is done. Thanks everyone!


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 06 September, 2015, 20:39:38 PM
sniff test, and keep and eye on it every morning, bleed it well, and stop worrying!


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 10 September, 2015, 16:14:48 PM
Egr blanked off, radiator flushed and bleed with heater on full blast on ramps for over 20 mins, heaters warm, and its still spitting out the coolant from the rad, and bubbles in the header tank with the rad cap on :-[ after switching the engine off, the bubbles in the header tank continue for about 2 mins.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: shaunellis64 on 10 September, 2015, 19:41:47 PM
As I found out the the rad when flushing out will take the easy way round so if it is blocked you will not now I sent mine to be check it was block and have to have a 're core
And you should have a sniff test done to check the head

Ho yes looked at the video and you have red antifreeze in it should be the blue in you year truck


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 10 September, 2015, 20:16:11 PM
Egr blanked off, radiator flushed and bleed with heater on full blast on ramps for over 20 mins, heaters warm, and its still spitting out the coolant from the rad, and bubbles in the header tank with the rad cap on :-[ after switching the engine off, the bubbles in the header tank continue for about 2 mins.

if there is forceful bubbling even on idle that is a bad sign, get a sniff test, from the sounds of it, it may well be HG,  if it is you can leave it a while if you check it regularly, if you dont have the time or need to use the truck, all depends on the sniff


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: 123hotchef on 10 September, 2015, 20:45:44 PM
I have red coolant no problem with that just dont mix them


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: mounty on 10 September, 2015, 21:19:53 PM
It sounds like you are having the same problems I had and going through the same process I did starting with the EGR and, in my case, finished up replacing the cylinder head. A bare one from milners cost me under 300`s and all the other bits and pieces weren`t silly money. There are plenty of lads done it on here so you`ll have lots of help. If you read my old posts they start off pretty much the same as yours. Hope it goes well. 


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 16 September, 2015, 11:12:46 AM
So quick update, took it to the garage this morning, and it overheated twice getting there. Had to pull over, let it cool right down and refill the rad. The gauge never hit the red, but it started to rise quickly. The coolant was thrown out of the header tank. So waiting for the garage to give there assessment, I haven't got the time to do the work on it myself, so see what they say.  :-X


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: 123hotchef on 16 September, 2015, 12:41:41 PM
sounds like HGF to me mate sorry to say 


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: nickburt on 16 September, 2015, 13:04:18 PM
sounds like HGF to me mate sorry to say 

Or a cracked head.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: paulw on 16 September, 2015, 16:37:00 PM
oh dear another one,sadly been there done it! sounds very much like hgf :-\


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: Marty03 on 17 October, 2015, 15:56:26 PM
Any news keyl200?

I'm having the same issue, but mines not overheating yet. I had a chemical sniff test done, and no exhaust gasses were present.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 17 October, 2015, 16:44:59 PM
Hi Marty03.

Still having the same problems. It still throws out around 200ml of coolant into the header tank and bubbles when engine on and for 2 mins when engine is turned off, but it has stopped overheating. Long story short, i'm doing alot of clearing work at home at the moment, a load of trees etc and the truck is vital to get everything done. So every morning i'm taking the excess coolant in the header tank and putting it back into the radiator. I know I run the risk of ruining the engine, but I have a replacement engine i'm rebuilding to swap when all the clearing is done. But my cylinder head or engine block is def cracked, won't know until i finish all the clearing and swap the engines. I still love my L200 thou ;D



Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: Navman on 17 October, 2015, 17:00:26 PM
Been there done that, as have loads of the lads on here, Mine was a cracked head first time round, never waited to find out the second time, I put steel seal in it and traded it in !! It's my daily driver and my business as well, so couldn't afford to be off the road for a week, while I got it sorted. bubbles in the header tank is ALWAYS either a cracked head or head gasket failure, the latter is usually caused by the former !! Sorry bu it looks like a new head is calling. Time t get the wallet out of hibernation.  :-\ :-\ :-\


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 17 October, 2015, 21:34:09 PM
NAVMAN, dont wanna rain on your parade, but 2 of my 4 L200's have had bubbles in the header tanks, came and went for about 4 months, I was worried it was head,  after alot of bleeding the system and coolant changes, neither of them bubble now, been good for about 5 months, so I guess its not head on them,,,

but I still have no explanation as to what caused, it, my only thought is the o-ring in the top of the water pump sucking air in


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: nickburt on 18 October, 2015, 16:41:02 PM
Most common causes of bubbling in the header tank are
And should (normally) be checked for in this order:

EGR cooler failure
Head gasket failure
Head cracked

I've seen many with bubbling in the header tank, but as long as the water volume is not allowed to reduce too much, they don't always overheat.  I drove one back from the south of Germany with a cracked head (caused by over heating it on a mountain climb, but it never over heated on the run home, just kept topping the water up every 100 miles or so.

Of course, there may always be an exception to a rule as douchecalamondeas experienced.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: all200 on 08 January, 2016, 00:17:28 AM
I have the very same problem I need a head gaskets, can anyone point out the does and don'ts for me. I understand as to what to do just don't want to make a costly error like the Bolts on the head and so on thanks



Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 08 January, 2016, 14:09:31 PM
milners


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: shaunellis64 on 08 January, 2016, 14:54:31 PM
My tip is get good quality bolts and head gasket set don't go cheep
Min cost around 130 pound's


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: all200 on 08 January, 2016, 19:05:34 PM
Thanks I'll have to get the steel gasket then


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 08 January, 2016, 21:27:10 PM
Noticed my post at the top of the pile so better update. Got another engine in my garage at the moment ready to be swapped in place of the dodgy one :). Im still running the engine with the head problems, still bubbling like crazy (big ones) but since i put a upgraded radiator in the truck which holds I think 9 or 10 litres, its been staying cool. Engine swap will be done this month hopefully when I find the time. Temp sensor in the radiator hose and electric fan with manual switch also put in so i can keep an eye on the temperature in future. The standard temp sensor is a massive liar :-X Can't wait to strip the dodgy engine to check for cracks!


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 10 January, 2016, 04:02:53 AM
agreed standard temp sensor is a terrible liar,

you can lock up/ stiffen your viscous fan and you will have alot more airflow than electric one, trust me, and cheap as chips,  tempsensor and adaptors on ebay for 5 each


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: Chris Site Founder on 10 January, 2016, 10:03:18 AM
How do you 'lock' the viscous fan ?
Pictures ?


Chris


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: 123hotchef on 10 January, 2016, 13:07:30 PM
different oil or i have seen people stick a scree or bolt through it


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 11 January, 2016, 01:43:08 AM
I put a bottle of 50k wt silicone diff oil in the fan,

IMO putting a bolt through it would be a bad idea, the clutch disc inside looks fairly hefty and higher grade metal, the casing would wear first and oil everywhere, and its just a bit caveman,

I am (when I get a minute) going to try and work out a scale of locking up the fan, because although we all want it a bit stiffer, you dont really want it solid like mine all the time. water pump bearings, and it sounds like an aircraft at 3k and higher, I have MT's so I dont care but you would notice it on normal tires,, I would at a guess say adding about 5-10ml or 10k wt oil would give a good medium but I havent tested it out yet.

as far as temp goes, my truck sits at 90-92 all the time, and you have to drive like a bit of a tool around town to get it to go up to 95, 96 is thehighest iv ever had with this new fan

but I would much prefer 80 or 70 degress, someone wanna work out how to make that a possibility?.

NICK B, you said yours is 90-95 round town, thats normal, the thermostat opens fully at 95, but if its climbing higher then its probably lack of airflow, i.e. fan,


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: shaunellis64 on 11 January, 2016, 06:33:48 AM
Well mine runs about 70 degrees at the moment I don't no if it's becouse I've got a 2.8 and go's up no more than 80 with caravan on my stat opens at 76 where 2.5 open at 86 if I remember right


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 11 January, 2016, 14:35:40 PM
Well mine runs about 70 degrees at the moment I don't no if it's becouse I've got a 2.8 and go's up no more than 80 with caravan on my stat opens at 76 where 2.5 open at 86 if I remember right

workshop manual says the 2.5 opens at 95...

if your stat fits in mine thats a nice easy fix,  ;D


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: 123hotchef on 11 January, 2016, 20:34:23 PM
you can get different temp rated stats


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 11 January, 2016, 21:14:58 PM
iv been on ebay, but because of teh l200 stats position on the bottom rad hose, I really dont know how it works, I Dont understnad why its at the coldest part of the engine?


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: nickburt on 11 January, 2016, 21:36:29 PM
iv been on ebay, but because of teh l200 stats position on the bottom rad hose, I really dont know how it works, I Dont understnad why its at the coldest part of the engine?

That's due to the way it bypasses when the stat is cold, the water in the block still passes thrugh the stat housing, so, until the stat opens is actually at the hotest point.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 12 January, 2016, 01:54:33 AM
iv been on ebay, but because of teh l200 stats position on the bottom rad hose, I really dont know how it works, I Dont understnad why its at the coldest part of the engine?

That's due to the way it bypasses when the stat is cold, the water in the block still passes thrugh the stat housing, so, until the stat opens is actually at the hotest point.

so what your saying is with the stat closed, the pump is still moving some water through the block and back through the egr cooler pipe , so thermostat gets an accurate reading when its cold?

what happens when stat opens, gets flooded with cold water from the rad, then closes right back up again??

seems needlessly complicated to me, just so it can get hotter faster in the morning.

I still want my cooling system to be around 70, less chance of it reaching 100 anywhere in the block then, (95 really aint far off 100)

nick, any suggestions? 2.8 thermostat swap?


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: nickburt on 12 January, 2016, 19:01:54 PM
iv been on ebay, but because of teh l200 stats position on the bottom rad hose, I really dont know how it works, I Dont understnad why its at the coldest part of the engine?

That's due to the way it bypasses when the stat is cold, the water in the block still passes thrugh the stat housing, so, until the stat opens is actually at the hotest point.

so what your saying is with the stat closed, the pump is still moving some water through the block and back through the egr cooler pipe , so thermostat gets an accurate reading when its cold?

what happens when stat opens, gets flooded with cold water from the rad, then closes right back up again??

seems needlessly complicated to me, just so it can get hotter faster in the morning.

I still want my cooling system to be around 70, less chance of it reaching 100 anywhere in the block then, (95 really aint far off 100)

nick, any suggestions? 2.8 thermostat swap?

Not quite.  And this is a common methd of quick warm up up used on many cars now.

When the thermostat is closed, the pump is circulating water around the block, gradually warming up. 
The wiggle pin hole in the thermostat allows a small amount of water to pass through it to the rad, therefore warming the contents of the rad.
When the stat eventually opens, warm water now passes through the rad and stat and the stat remains partly open until full temp is reached through the rad - which is quite quick - try it, feel the hoses as it all warms up - if you run the engine with the truck stationary, the engine rarely gets hot enough to open the stat, so you need to block off air flow - even then it's possible the engine still won't get hot enough to open the stat.

Takes while to get your head round it, but it works.

Don't run the engine too cold (70 is too cold), the effects of the antifreeze/summer coolant/corrosion inhibitor will be reduced, resulting in potential corrosion deposits and the engine efficiency will drop considerably.

I know it's not the same, but race engines are run at rediculous temps and pressures for the very reason of efficiency and, therefore, max power/torque for the design of the engine.

I would say that ideally, these engines need to be running around 85 ish under normal operation, rising to 90 - 95 when working their poor little t..s off.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 13 January, 2016, 00:01:24 AM
I have a top rad hose sender, and the factory temp gauge gets to halfway (90?) before the top rad hose gets to 40(the bottom of the gauge)..

as for efficiency and rust,  what about those old engines, like our IH tractor's dozers and the bedford,   they never get hot,, our dozer has a gigantic rad, fixed fan etc, and i would assume no thermostat, but the water is about 40 degrees all the time in that thing, luke warm, and its less rusty in the rad than the l200,

if your sure about 70 being too cold, then how about 80, i'd settle for that, but need an 80 deg thermostat for it I guess


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: Nooks on 13 January, 2016, 01:49:26 AM
Don't forget that as your coolant is under pressure, it doesn't actually boil at 100C, probably more like 110. - I'm sure we will have a mathematician on here that can accurately work out the boiling temperature, if they can be bothered.  ;)


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: nickburt on 13 January, 2016, 09:07:01 AM
Don't forget that as your coolant is under pressure, it doesn't actually boil at 100C, probably more like 110. - I'm sure we will have a mathematician on here that can accurately work out the boiling temperature, if they can be bothered.  ;)

Depends on what pressure, content of antifreeze ............  :-X :-X :-X


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 13 January, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
Don't forget that as your coolant is under pressure, it doesn't actually boil at 100C, probably more like 110. - I'm sure we will have a mathematician on here that can accurately work out the boiling temperature, if they can be bothered.  ;)

but it also drops from 90 down to 82 going from just the top rad hose to the rad cap..  if it can drop that fast it can heat up pretty quick round the cylinders too I would think.

I know water has very high specific heat but the whole system doesn't hold alot of it as we have said before


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: bootsie on 13 January, 2016, 13:41:46 PM

 Luckily for us the manufacturers of the engine have decided upon the optimum temperature for this engine to run correctly and provide the correct parts to do the job.
 If you try to guess a better way of doing it you have to accept the risk that you may interfere with the optimum that they came up with when they designed and sold several hundred thousand engines.
I accept that your guesswork nay be better than their knowledge and experience but forgive me my doubts.
 


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 13 January, 2016, 16:49:37 PM
always one for "keeping it stock" aren't you  :-X

I think we can all agree that when it comes to cooling, maybe mitsubishi's techs aren't as smart as they think, the k74 engine has a VERY bad reputation for overheating, HGF, and all the rest of it..

I just think maybe its a sliding scale between performance and reliability, and in this case they went too far down the performance route and missed out some reliability?? ???

just looking at the info we have, the 2.8 has a much better reputation and yet uses the same cooling principals, viscous fan, thermostat probably in the same place, etc etc,  but as one member has said theirs runs much colder.. im just putting 2 and 2 together here, maybe if the 2.5 ran colder, it would be more reliable..

if I am wrong and next year my rad looks like the surface of mars, you can say I told you so.  ;D



Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: bootsie on 13 January, 2016, 21:18:30 PM

 You may be right, kept mine standard perhaps that's where I got the idea from. 84k since new, never had to top up water or oil, just service every 12k miles. Used every day for
 9 years . never failed to start and only one repair to engine to change SCV and one new battery.
 I have repaired several others in that time and have been surprised at times at the % of them have suffered due to some 'improvements to standard'. Whilst I fully appreciate and enjoy mods I tend to leave basics alone because I prefer to drive rather than spend my spare time in the garage.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 28 February, 2016, 15:39:38 PM
Hi everyone.

Promised i'd report back after I'd take apart the old engine. Found the time to take it apart today, and found the cylinder head had cracked. Cracks were big enough to see without looking to hard, so you can add me to the cylinder head failure club ::)  Put another engine in the truck i'd done alot of work on and its running perfectly now :P. The bigger radiator def makes a difference. And totally agree with douchecalamondaes, i fitted a temp sensor in the top hose and the standard temp gauge goes to halfway before the digital one starts to go over 40, so i would highly recommend the temp sensors in the top hose. Noticed mine now likes to sit at around 79-84 degrees when fully up to temp. Will never trust the standard gauge again.

I think the cause of my cracked cylinder head was the engine was very slightly overheating, and the standard temp gauge didn't register it and rise. Thats my thinking of it anyway. Anyways I learnt alot as this was my first engine swap, and everything went to plan  :)


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: thewall on 28 February, 2016, 16:53:03 PM
Hi

After reading your thread i'm interested in the top hose temp sensor,i have found an adaptor but what else do i need for the complete job,i have found this site

water cooling (http://http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/cat/Monitoring_45.html?page=1) if you could lead me in the right place

Cheers


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: Paxo on 28 February, 2016, 17:24:50 PM
Hi

After reading your thread i'm interested in the top hose temp sensor,i have found an adaptor but what else do i need for the complete job,i have found this site

water cooling (http://http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/cat/Monitoring_45.html?page=1) if you could lead me in the right place

Cheers

In your link you have too many "http://"s so it doesn't work. The link does work when corrected.  ;)


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: keyL200 on 28 February, 2016, 17:36:53 PM
Hi there buddy. I think people have different setups, but this is how i've done it :

(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q602/key_oasislg/20160228_171338_zpsoowxs6w9.jpg) (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/key_oasislg/media/20160228_171338_zpsoowxs6w9.jpg.html)

(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q602/key_oasislg/20160228_171258_zpseyw1ctzf.jpg) (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/key_oasislg/media/20160228_171258_zpseyw1ctzf.jpg.html)

(need to tidy up my wiring i know ::))Basically earth the hose adapter, feed the sender wire into the cab through the firewall which is a little fiddly but not to bad. Then connect the sender wire to the digital gauge, and then the gauge needs to be powered and earthed so i connected mine to the cigarette lighter. 

This is the gauge i bought: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2-52mm-UNIVERSAL-DIGITAL-LED-WATER-TEMP-TEMPERATURE-GAUGE-METER-CAR-BLACK/390885566135?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D9cd262616a1c442a986646adb7907257%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D390885566135

Also needed a gauge pod which i got from a place called demontweeks, there on ebay too. Hope that gives you an idea. I'll check out that link too.


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: douchecalamondaes on 28 February, 2016, 21:56:42 PM
That's the right adaptor, blue5 one on eBay
I got the normal thq gauge 1/8 npr thread


Title: Re: Header tank overfilled and bubbles
Post by: thewall on 29 February, 2016, 06:48:15 AM
water cooling (http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk)