KS International - L200 Forum sponsor
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
15 June, 2021, 19:07:10 PM

Login with username, password and session length
155944 Posts in 18335 Topics by 12181 Members
www.L200.org.uk
Membership to this site is FREE.
Please email or PM me to become a free member
Home L200 Forum L200 Forum & Club Info Buy Owners Club Merchandise at the L200 Forum L200 Forum Gallery L200 Forum Information page Login Register L200 Forum Links Page L200 Forum email
Looking to join the Mitsubishi L200 Owners Club ? - Joining info here - - - - - - - Want to help our charities ? - Shop at Amazon.co.uk through this link
L200 Owners Club Forum - Facebook Page A-Plan L200 insurance - L200 Forum sponsor
+  L200 Owners Club
|-+  The Forum
| |-+  Public/Initial Posting Area.
| | |-+  Misfire/No power after head rebuild (broken timing belt) - Advice sought.
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Misfire/No power after head rebuild (broken timing belt) - Advice sought.  (Read 1553 times)
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« on: 23 March, 2021, 05:46:22 AM »

I'm hoping the hive mind here will be able to help guide me as both me and my mechanic are at a loss as to what's up. (sorry for long post)

It's a '56 plate new shape. 89k miles. I've bought it with 65k, and the timing belt had just been changed. Good service history. I drove it for 5 years, adding about 24k, and ran into bad luck when the timing belt snapped a couple of days before Christmas 2017. Funds were short, so it got SORN'd. Several places told me "Oooh, that's gonna need a new engine. ?3k minimum" so it stayed SORN'd until I finally plucked up the courage (October 2019) to get someone to dismantle the top to check the damage. Luckily, it seemed the damage was limited to 4 valves and 4 broken rockers. I contacted Milners, and decided that a new head would probably be only marginally more than refurbishing mine, so I added my name to the waiting list (they were out of stock, and I was told 'probably after Christmas')

Christmas came and went - no stock... Then COVID. Meanwhile, the head was in the back of the truck, and the main block was covered with some plastic sheeting and heavy blankets 😏

Summer passed and after more conversations with Milners, (and Brexit etc etc), I took the plunge and had my cylinder head repaired. Valves replaced/reseated and the whole head pressure tested etc. After more waiting on parts (gaskets and belts) I eventually called the mechanic back in February 2021. He put it all back together, and we got it turning over. That's when the fun started. 😩

When it broke down, the fuel light was on, and the AA guy initially stuck 5 litres in, as I assumed it had run out. Anyway, I put 20 litres of fresh fuel in before we started cranking it. Lots of white smoke, and a LOT of brake cleaner later, we eventually got it fired up, albeit sounding like a cement mixer full of bricks. I thought the whole truck would shake itself to pieces. ECU reported a misfire on Cylinders 2 & 3. It sounded like a steam train pulling out of the station. After some head scratching, we (the mechanic) thought it could be glow plugs or injectors. I said it still sounded rough after it had been running 5 minutes, so how could it be the glow plugs? Anyway, he took the glow plugs out, and sure enough, 2 & 3 were clean as a whistle, whilst 1 & 4 were sooted up, which suggested no fuel in 2 or 3, so injector problems. (maybe)

I've now had the injectors refurbished, and they told me after the initial test, 2 of them weren't delivering any fuel, and the other 2 were hardly delivering any. They were amazed that we had got it started at all. Anyway, shiny new refurb'd injectors are back in now, timing belts checked, and rechecked, and we eventually got it going again. Less brake cleaner this time (but still required initially) and STILL sounding like a cement mixer full of bricks. Still shaking, but not as much, and still dies when you put it in gear (it's an AUTO). It started several times after that on it's own, without brake cleaner assistance.

Lots more head scratching (by mechanic) and he started to go through everything systematically, starting with the oil. Milners had sent 7 litres fully synthetic as part of their 'Service kit'. Most of it went in initially. (I didn't think to check how much it should have taken - blindly assuming Milners would know, and the mechanic would check.....) Anyway, mechanic noticed that the oil was massively overfilled. He drained about 3 litres off before the level was between the marks on the dipstick. That's when he said "I think there is diesel in the oil"

WTF? He thinks the oil he drained off was far too thin, and maybe now the injectors are spewing out too much fuel which is ending up in the sump. I, frankly, am clueless but also very quickly running out of cash. 😩 He was here most of the day on Saturday and didn't want to take any money from me as he hadn't fixed the problem, so I don't think he's yanking my chain. I just think he's genuinely not seen a problem like this and is stumped.

I've got a video of it running, both in the engine bay, and what the exhaust was chucking out, but I'm not sure if I can upload a video here?

Does anyone have any suggestions/helpful advice.🤞 😳 I'm Surrey/SW London if that's relevant.

Thanks for your time.
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #1 on: 23 March, 2021, 15:43:54 PM »

Sorry to hear of your troubles, If the truck was running fine before the cam belt snapped the chances are injectors would be fine, standing for long periods is not a problem, from what you explain it looks to me that rough running will be a timing issue or injector pump issue, recheck the timing belt, pay attention to the crank timing pickup, if all is ok,,  next look at the injection pump, has water got Into it, pump wiring correct, white smoke is typical sign of injection pump timing is out. you dont say what model truck it is classic or DiD
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« Reply #2 on: 23 March, 2021, 20:31:24 PM »

It's a new shape on a 56 plate, so I think it's the 4d56u. 2.5DiD (It's the Elegance model).

The whole thing was still intact between Christmas 2017 and October 2019, but that's when it was dismantled, and all the parts we stripped off went into the back, so were exposed to damp air for over a year. The diagnostics indicated that cylinders 2 & 3 were misfiring, and the glow plugs suggested no fuel reaching 2 or 3, hence the injector refurb. Anyway, they're done now, so I won't get a refund, but it's still not solved the problem! 😩

The white smoke doesn't last, if we can get it to keep running on idle, but the chugging noise and big vibration certainly do last. It will rev up, and at that point the vibration stops, but at higher revs, there's a clattering noise that doesn't sound good. There's some grey smoke but not much at high revs.
There's just not enough power to put it in 'Drive' though, so it just cuts out.
I've thrown nearly ?2k at it already, so I'm really hoping it's something simple that we've overlooked. 😳
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
Supersnail
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 610

Im always in the poo its only the depth that varie


« Reply #3 on: 23 March, 2021, 21:17:33 PM »

Sounds like the cambelt isn't lined up properly on the timing marks to me.
Logged

2001 Black\Grey double cab.K&N air filter
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #4 on: 24 March, 2021, 16:31:18 PM »

Sorry didnt look at your model, The DID engine will have a PSV, Fuel pressure blow off valve and a governing valve on the pump. If the timing marks are all lined up and ok, and valves are adjusted good, time to look at the fuel pressure, you will need to have live data and engine running look at the fuel pressure while its running it should be stable, from memory runs about 20 to 25 kpa at idle, if it is jumping about more than this, possible blow off valve has activated on the fuel rail, you will need to get new PSV, blow of valve and pump pressure valve, three items,, install them and then run a pump relearn and reset on the MUT 2 or other diagnostic, dont just renew the blow off valve it will blow off again. disconnect battery and put the live terminal to earth to deplete milli volts in ECU, the ECU should then return back to factory settings. If you are getting fuel in the oil I would guess that cos you are cranking it over to much to start it, but does mean the injectors are fine and doing there job, I would not put to much into the cylinder misfiring on diagnostics, if it is hard to start that would just flash up, get some new oil in it diesel is a detergent. also what diagnostics are you using you need a good one the cheaper stuff is rubbish, also as I said before look at the pump timing disk and sender on the crank, get a spark to test the sensor, first. thats all I can suggest without seeing the truck. the video would be helpful
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« Reply #5 on: 24 March, 2021, 21:03:54 PM »

Sorry didnt look at your model, The DID engine will have a PSV, Fuel pressure blow off valve and a governing valve on the pump. If the timing marks are all lined up and ok, and valves are adjusted good, time to look at the fuel pressure, you will need to have live data and engine running look at the fuel pressure while its running it should be stable, from memory runs about 20 to 25 kpa at idle, if it is jumping about more than this, possible blow off valve has activated on the fuel rail, you will need to get new PSV, blow of valve and pump pressure valve, three items,, install them and then run a pump relearn and reset on the MUT 2 or other diagnostic, dont just renew the blow off valve it will blow off again. disconnect battery and put the live terminal to earth to deplete milli volts in ECU, the ECU should then return back to factory settings. If you are getting fuel in the oil I would guess that cos you are cranking it over to much to start it, but does mean the injectors are fine and doing there job, I would not put to much into the cylinder misfiring on diagnostics, if it is hard to start that would just flash up, get some new oil in it diesel is a detergent. also what diagnostics are you using you need a good one the cheaper stuff is rubbish, also as I said before look at the pump timing disk and sender on the crank, get a spark to test the sensor, first. thats all I can suggest without seeing the truck. the video would be helpful
Thanks @rodeast24 Really useful stuff. 🙂
I'm not sure exactly what the mechanic has and hasn't done, but I will gently suggest this stuff to him. I know he's not an L200 specialist for sure, but I found him on Checkatrade with 9.98 score from 100s of reviews, which was way better than others with 10 reviews.
Looks like I need to sink another ?50 or so on new oil before anything else!! 😏
Not sure what Diagnostic it is, but fairly certain its something like the Bosch KTS 340 (looks really similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvzC-lEvHo8)
What is the best way to show a video on here? I guess upload to YouTube and link to it here?
Many thanks
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #6 on: 25 March, 2021, 05:06:11 AM »

Just get a cheap oil and use it as a running in flush while you have the problems, soon as you get it running good, put some good stuff in it, Im not about to judge your mechanic he is probally very competent, but these days it is hard work to know all makes and models. KTS is fine good system, I only asked as some guys use cheap Chinese diagnostics. If the truck was running good before the belt snapped, and provided you guys have put it back together with everything lined up there should be no reason it should be playing up like it is, parts lying about in the back of the truck for any length of time should not be a problem with damp over time. I can see why frustration sets in as you throw money into something and the problems seem to just go on and on, its just as frustrating for the mechanic. sometime's we all can overthink things which sends us in all directions. it could be a simple matter of the Fuel filter has clogged up over time from non use, not giving good flow but restricting flow sending the pump to scavenge and upsetting the ECU. always worth a look. I could suggest you to do leak off tests, and all sorts but its all money and time, in reality if its gone back together as it should be, its a fueling problem. diesels dont like being starved of fuel and if the fuel timing is out they make all sorts of nasty noises. good luck with it and let us know when you find the cause and effect, a lot of people get them going good and dont post again, so the learning curve never gets learned if you see what I mean.
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #7 on: 25 March, 2021, 05:16:59 AM »

just read you post again and are you sure you put the injectors back in there corresponding cylinder, the injectors are coded to firing position within the ECU, if you have mixed them up, this would cause all sorts of trouble, the injectors will have identification codes. the KTS will show you the codes and corresponding cylinders replace the injectors to the correct cylinder.
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« Reply #8 on: 25 March, 2021, 21:57:09 PM »

When the injectors came out, they all had hand written numbers, 1-4 on them, but during the refurb the numbers disappeared. He tried to recode the ECU but he seemed to think that they were plug and play as he said there was nowhere on the Bosch to input them 🤷‍♂️ I was a bit surprised about that, to be honest, but I have no idea how his diagnostic works, so not in a position to argue. Will suggest it again to him.
Good call on cheap oil for now....👍
I just had a chat with him and he's coming back to double check valve clearances and timing (although he's sure they're ok) but he did say that he would look at the blow off valve and pump pressure valve. I'm still hopeful it's something relatively simple that has just been overlooked!! I'm getting headaches just thinking about it.

Of course, once it's running, there's an MOT to book 😱😱😱😱
Will certainly keep you updated, and will look now at how I can get a video on here...
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« Reply #9 on: 25 March, 2021, 22:59:48 PM »

VIDEO UPLOADED!!

https://youtu.be/usU9g8tE0uo
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #10 on: 26 March, 2021, 01:54:14 AM »

Just had a look at the video, looks like to me that running on two cylinders, which would explain why you had two sooty glow plugs and two glow plugs clean, to use diagnostics in the field you will need to run two or three diagnostic units (EG)  KTS, Autoboss, and snap on, the reason for this is KTS is realy good on German stuff and a lot of other makes, Autoboss would cover all the other makes, and so on for snap on.. One machine will never do all makes of car and truck. Dealers have there own dedicated software normally 50k.. so I think the KTS is not showing him the codes as it is out of the scope of the KTS, The injectors are not plug and play, they need to be coded to the ECU in the correct cylinder, I think you waisted money by getting them re furbished, but there done now so should be good for 100k,+. mity's are a pain to get into, my Autoboss is pritty good with them, I had KTS but binned it due to update fees and it let me down on a wide variety of cars and trucks.  It is alway worth looking at the timing belt timing marks again and the rocker gap's, to tight and they can hold the valves open. Have a good look at injectors with a magnifying glass there should be some codes on them somewhere.
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« Reply #11 on: 26 March, 2021, 05:27:26 AM »

Just had a look at the video, looks like to me that running on two cylinders, which would explain why you had two sooty glow plugs and two glow plugs clean, to use diagnostics in the field you will need to run two or three diagnostic units (EG)  KTS, Autoboss, and snap on, the reason for this is KTS is realy good on German stuff and a lot of other makes, Autoboss would cover all the other makes, and so on for snap on.. One machine will never do all makes of car and truck. Dealers have there own dedicated software normally 50k.. so I think the KTS is not showing him the codes as it is out of the scope of the KTS, The injectors are not plug and play, they need to be coded to the ECU in the correct cylinder, I think you waisted money by getting them re furbished, but there done now so should be good for 100k,+. mity's are a pain to get into, my Autoboss is pritty good with them, I had KTS but binned it due to update fees and it let me down on a wide variety of cars and trucks.  It is alway worth looking at the timing belt timing marks again and the rocker gap's, to tight and they can hold the valves open. Have a good look at injectors with a magnifying glass there should be some codes on them somewhere.

You, Sir, are a legend. Thank you. Looks like I might have to suggest to the mechanic that it goes to a Mitsy specialist for the final leg, but on the plus side, it doesn't sound like it's a dead donkey just yet!
Still concerned about so much fuel in the oil sump, but like you say, will throw in some cheap oil until we sort it.
The injectors do have codes on the top for sure. They didn't get wiped off when they were reconditioned, just the handwritten cylinder numbers. 😏
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #12 on: 26 March, 2021, 07:09:55 AM »

your problem with fuel getting into the oil might be apparent when the rocker cover comes off, I believe the fuel pipes are under the cover and I would guess one is loose or the washers are damaged,, I cant hear the video realy well but im pritty sure I can hear a chuffing as if a injector is not seating correctly or maybe two injectors I hope you installed new seals on the injectors,, I suggest putting some grease on them to stop them falling down the hole and not seating correctly, from memory there should be two seals per injector. upper and lower, Dont think you got anything to worry about its defo injector problems coding or incorrect fitment that y best guess. you broke the back of it nearly there now. Good luck.
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #13 on: 26 March, 2021, 07:37:56 AM »

do dahs to taking it to Mitzy, Just ask your spanner man if he can borrow a autoboss I know they work. dont want to be to harsh on your man but these trucks are getting on a bit now so its all basic stuff, reason I gave it all up, to much hassle on new stuff these days, f-ing sensors EGR systems VVT the list goes on. Mate of mine yesterday took his rangerover to independent and they charged him ?700 plus fool for fixing a electrical block on his fuel tank. World has gone F-ing mad.
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« Reply #14 on: 28 March, 2021, 23:16:30 PM »

All done!! - Success and major thanks to RodEast24 !

Mechanic came back yesterday with another diagnostic besides his Bosch KTS. Re-coded the injectors and double checked the valve clearances as per the book (I think he either forgot to do them, or did them to the wrong clearances). It started first time within a fraction of a second, despite the battery needing a charge. Sounds like a purring kitten now. 🙂The only minor problem we have now is the Engine light is flashing orange on the dash. Not constantly on, but flashing. We reset it by discharging the live battery lead to earth for 20 seconds, and via the diagnostic, but it's still flashing. 🤷‍♂️ No fault codes are coming up on either of his diagnostics so we were a bit stuck with that. Google came up with a big fat zilch. No smoke coming out of the exhaust, and amazingly, I drove it up the road and everything worked like it should!
Here's a vid of it purring away. (I didn't run the mechanic over, honest!! He was just putting the skid tray back on.)

https://youtu.be/kChvJwy41pI

Will have to take it to my local garage to investigate the engine light as that will be an MOT fail 😏, but we're much further on than a week ago.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #15 on: 29 March, 2021, 00:05:12 AM »

Flashing mil light, after coding injectors or new PSV, Blow off valve, you will have to do a Injection pump/ reset and learn test via the diagnostic, yet again its down to the capability of the diagnostic you use, some will do it others wont. you have no faults as there are no faults present. Keep an eye on the oil level make sure it dont rise, due to fuel. and Happy days your close now.. Autel or Autoboss should be able to run pump learns and resets but only do them when truck is at running temperature, the pump needs to calibrate itself to the new injectors and at the same time learns the parameters of the PSV and so on.
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #16 on: 29 March, 2021, 00:08:35 AM »

P.S dont run the engine to much with this problem it could blow the valve and them you will need to replace all three items as I mentioned before
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
Bonus
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


« Reply #17 on: 29 March, 2021, 21:43:11 PM »

Thanks again Rodeast24.

Just got it back from the MOT garage. They reset the engine management light (he's got a brand new Autel diagnostic) - as you say, no actual fault, just a reset required. It would have been a pass too, except for failing on 3 lights, all on offside. He didn't have time to trace the fault as it's not the bulbs themselves, so it's back on my drive for now. If I can find the fault before Thursday, I'll do it, if not his electrician can sort it on Thursday in time for a retest and new Tax!

Absolutely amazed that it had no other issues despite sitting on my driveway for pretty much 4 years!!
Logged

56 new shape Elegance. Auto. Black. Hard top. 89k.
rodeast24
Owners Club member
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 636


« Reply #18 on: 30 March, 2021, 05:38:30 AM »

Good job then, look at your fuses and happy days.
Logged

Warrior 2004 Silver
Fullbox, decat, egr blanked, powerchip, Mac wheels 285/60/18 coopers.Sport grill, twin headlights. 124K, New engine at 102K.
Landrover 90 and discovery td5, also 1958 series 2.. I do love my landys,
Volvo 850R, nissan 300zx twin turbo, Been ordered by a higher athority no more toys.
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.1 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!